News Day Tuesday: A-Rod to the Hall of Fame?

February 10th, 2009
By

I know I probably won't be the only one blogging about this today, but I'm hoping I can find a different angle for all y'all to comment about up in here. I just hope there's enough of you baseball fans (or women who think he's hot) out there to get a dialogue goin'. :)

With the news that Alex Rodriguez admitted to using performance enhancing drugs during his 2001-2003 Texas Rangers years, he's been called anything from A-Roid to A Fraud. His numbers will undoubtedly be questioned and his legacy forever tarnished. [Watch ESPN.com's Video Interview here]

For some strange reason, however, I find myself still a fan.

Is it because he did not go the way of lying vehement denial like the Mark McGwires, Rafael Palmeiros, Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds of the world? (Then again, Jose Canseco admitted to taking PEDs, but I won't even go there).

Is it because A-Rod has never let me down while playing on my fantasy baseball team? *grin*

Or could it be his otherwise clean cut image (aside from the whole *ahem* Madonna thing), before this news?

Whatever it is, I kinda believe him. He made a mistake during one period in his life, has since closed that chapter, and is now ready to move on. And although I don't agree with his choices (he said he did it because he felt an enormous amount of pressure to perform at a high level after signing a 10 year, 252 Million dollar contract), I do believe his story that he's been clean ever since, and I still feel that he has a place in baseball's hallowed Hall of Fame, where the other names above do not.

Talk to me!
* Whatchu tink? Am I off my rocker?
* Once a cheat, always a cheat?
* Setting a bad example to our young children?
* He's the same as Jose Canseco?
* Think he should still make it into the Hall of Fame?

18 Responses to “News Day Tuesday: A-Rod to the Hall of Fame?”

  1. uncle jimmy:

    so question #1, is the girl in the ad on the right blinking? hope so, cuz if not, den am haveen one flashback..

    the a-rod thing seems to be a function of the era, the pressure of stardom, and the price of fame.. all inducing individuals to cheat because the competition is often cheating as well.. does that make it excusable? maybe, maybe not, but at least it's understandable..

    him coming out does raise one interesting question, are you damned if you do and damned if you don't.. people in the US tend to forgive admissions of mistakes.. so we'll see on that one..

    isn't that one of the lessons of the recent presidential campaign.. if you're going to use drugs in high school.. admit it up front and there's no mo' story..

    hall of fame? hmmm, prolly the answer on that is either "let them all in " or "keep them all out".. my guess is that they're all going to get left out, at least until we put this episode behind us..

    but here's a question for the future.. once PEDs can be developed that aren't harmful or dangerous, then what? and if also not detectible, what then?

    easy questions to ask, hard to answer.. trut' be told, if my "baseball hero" was revealed to have used PEDs, da image would be at leas' "different"..

    can you put an asterisk on a memory?


  2. MakiSushi:

    Me, I'm not an ARod fan, think he's a weasel, figured he used steroids. But, hey, we're all human, we all make mistakes.

    uncle jimmy covered the points very well, I agree with his assessments. and especially like his last statement.

    Hall of Fame for ARod? Too early to tell. If he stays healthy and productive he has a better chance, since he came "clean". but, trust him? Not me.

    All in all, makes me appreciate the guys who played the game in da ol' days - played for da love of da game.


  3. zzzzzz:

    Well, if A-Rod gets in, so should Bonds. He put up HOF numbers before he started getting big.

    Interesting that the as more guys get 'outed,' the guy whose accounts keep getting corroborated is Jose Canseco. He mentioned A-Rod in his book, but until now, it seemed most people lent no credence to that.


  4. frankie:

    The only reason A-Roids apologized is because he saw what happened to people like Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro and McGwire after they were caught or cast suspicion upon and they denied it. Contrast that with Andy Pettit and Jason Giambi who were treated better after admitting. A-Roids denied using in a prior interview. I have no pity for him and do not believe he is sincere in his apology.

    Winners never cheat and cheaters never win! (Well, unless you count ACORN and their fraudulent votes! Ha! But that's history.) As long as Pete Rose is out of the hall of fame, then A-Roids should be as well.


  5. kuya.d:

    Well . . . Baseball is not my favorite sport, and the whole substance issue is ridiculous already. Right now, I'd say a-fraud is out. But ask me seven years from now and things will probably different.

    Consider this, we are a country of "what have you done for me lately?" Look at Kobe, does anyone remember the incident in Colorado when he deals out 61? I don't think so.

    Someone on espn said, "we're a country of forgiving." Dude, if that was true, wouldn't Pete Rose or McGwire be in by now? Or maybe MLB is just messed up?

    Thankfully, the young talent - the Uptons, Longoria, Hamels, Lincecum - will prove that the substance era is over. Without fantasy sports, I honestly wouldn't care.

    btw - the MLB players' union needs to straighten things out.


  6. M:

    Cheater, cheater, cheater


  7. NeedaHobby:

    Ho boy. I was am a fan of Michael Phelps AND A-Rod ... so ... GRRR! I'm feeling frustrated! With Phelps, his action was more forgiveable since it wasn't a PED. With A-Rod, it's harder to forgive. I guess we'll see how he handles himself from here on out.

    One question I had, if the PED's were taken from 2001-2003, why is the story only breaking now?


  8. BP:

    I say let them all in. PED's should be allowed for any athlete that wants to take them. If they are willing to risk their lives over their profession, who am I to say not to. PED's will make you stronger, but they will not make baseball superstars out of just anyone. It still takes skill to hit a baseball thrown 95plus mph your way. I dont care how many steroids you take.
    We deal with people who use PED's everyday at work. Who doesn't know someone that isnt productive until their first cup of coffee. Or who can't concentrate until their cigarette break.
    The pressure to perform is put on these athletes by us, the fans. Then we watch in awe as these "heroes" smash five hundred foot home runs, or run faster then wind, or breaks tackles for a hundred yard run, only to chastise and pass judgment on them later. We are the ones who don't show up to games when none of that happens. Because when none of that is happening, most times your team is in the cellar.
    These people are athletes. They are paid for winning games and putting butts in the seats. Baseball was dying when McGuire and Sosa revived it with their home run race a few years back. They should be thanked. Bonds record setting years should be celebrated.
    And I know that there are those out there who will argue that they are making terrible role models. Honestly, the parents are being terrible parents if they don't teach their children the difference from a hero and an athlete. Besides, Babe ruth drank, smoked, and fooled around with many women in his time.
    I know that if an employe came in and did three times the work assigned, worked harder, longer, and better while taking PED's, I wouldn't fire them. Heck I would give them a raise.


  9. EMM386:

    Frankie has it right. He saw that there was no win in denying anything after what happened to Big Mac and Bonds, so he met with his "team" (i.e. Scott Boras and his public relations guy) and crafted something that sounded contrite. Its so calculated.

    Regardless of that, however, if we believe him in that he only used in his first three years in Texas, that would give him an average (discounting his first two years, when he was only part time and discounting the first three years in Texas) of 39.7 HR/Yr. Add in the 5 he hit his first two years and he would be at about 521 over his 15 year career, or Hall worthy numbers. His BA in the first three years in Texas are within the standard deviation for his career, so I would say the .306 BA is not an aberration. It's true that two of his top five slugging percentages were in the first three years in Texas, but his top two come in 2007 in NY and in 1996 in Seattle, so those are not necessarily aberrant numbers either. Likewise, his best OPS+ years were 2007 and 2005, with 2001 (first year in Texas) tied with 1996 in Seattle for third. If he's telling the truth about when he used, the numbers say he really didn't need the steroids and that he'd make Hall numbers regardless.

    Bonds was very similar to Mays. A little less power, but more speed on the base paths. If you do a calc like the one I did for A-Rod, discounting 1999 when its generally accepted he started using steroids and applying a factor for declining performance due to age, he would be at about 525 HR for his career (assuming he avoided a catastrophic injury, and played til 2007), with about 550-560 stolen bases (interestingly, his SB number take a precipitous decline in 1999 when he is alleged to have started 'roiding up), also Hall of Fame numbers, since that would be an unprecedented combination of power and speed. Both calcs do not even take into consideration that A-Rod and Bonds were above average fielders at their respective positions.

    I think both guys are HOF's because the numbers indicate that they would have made it anyway. Big Mac, on the other hand had power, and power only. His defense was always suspect and his BA and OBP was not significant. Take away the HR due to steroids and he'd be borderline at best. On a personal level, I like Big Mac more than A-Rod or Bonds, but from a HOF standpoint, he had the least chance of making it in.


  10. rayboyjr:

    Wow ... a lot of lengthy comments ...

    The way i see it ... A-Rod already had a gigantic contract in hand and was already one of the elite megastars of baseball ... and he felt the pressure of the world on him? Don't buy it at all! It was his choice ... he saw an opportunity ... he thought he wouldn't get caught!

    He should have just come clean period. He used, he lied and he got caught. Apologize and move on. I'm tired of all the excuses.

    HOF? Either let 'em all in or keep 'em all out (PED users) ...


  11. World Wide Ed:

    * uncle jimmy:
    but here’s a question for the future.. once PEDs can be developed that aren’t harmful or dangerous, then what? and if also not detectible, what then?

    easy questions to ask, hard to answer.. trut’ be told, if my “baseball hero” was revealed to have used PEDs, da image would be at leas’ “different”..

    can you put an asterisk on a memory?

    Ho, getting deep ah uji. I like! Almost had chicken skin on that last sentence! Interesting to see what happens when they do come out with PEDs that can't be traced. BTW, who's your baseball hero?

    * MakiSushi:
    All in all, makes me appreciate the guys who played the game in da ol’ days - played for da love of da game.

    I hear ya Maks! All Natro #1!

    * zzzzzz:
    Well, if A-Rod gets in, so should Bonds. He put up HOF numbers before he started getting big.

    True, true. I wonder if it matters when they took it though zzzzzz? Bonds did it towards the end of his career, where A Rod did it early and still has many years to "make up" for it(?)...

    * frankie:
    Winners never cheat and cheaters never win! (Well, unless you count ACORN and their fraudulent votes! Ha! But that’s history.) As long as Pete Rose is out of the hall of fame, then A-Roids should be as well.

    Ho, harsh. The more I read, the more I'm hatin' A Rod! Haha! Funny you mention that "Winners never cheat" quote cause that's similar to my email signature: "Winner never quit, quitters never win." Poor, poor Pete. I feel sorry for the guy. He made a HUGE mistake by betting, but his numbers while a player were HOF-caliber no? I dunno, I just like him cause of his hard-nose playing style (like me! :P ).

    * kuya.d:
    Consider this, we are a country of “what have you done for me lately?” Look at Kobe, does anyone remember the incident in Colorado when he deals out 61? I don’t think so.

    Oh, I dunno about anyone else, but I'll never forget what Kobe did. :(

    * M:
    Cheater, cheater, cheater

    ahahaha.

    * NeedaHobby:
    One question I had, if the PED’s were taken from 2001-2003, why is the story only breaking now?

    Apparently, there was some back research that surfaced only recently. According to the story, it wasn't "illegal" back then so everyone was doing it, but somehow, some way, he tested positive in one test at some point back in the day. That's as much as I know. Anyone else?

    * BP:
    PED’s will make you stronger, but they will not make baseball superstars out of just anyone. It still takes skill to hit a baseball thrown 95plus mph your way. I dont care how many steroids you take.

    I know that if an employe came in and did three times the work assigned, worked harder, longer, and better while taking PED’s, I wouldn’t fire them. Heck I would give them a raise.

    I agree with the first statement BP, but that doesn't change the feeling that they cheated. Love the analogy you used in the second statement. So true isn't it? Then again, I don't think the team/owners are giving the PEDs to the "employees". I still think it's a personal choice.

    * EMM386:
    Frankie has it right. He saw that there was no win in denying anything after what happened to Big Mac and Bonds, so he met with his “team” (i.e. Scott Boras and his public relations guy) and crafted something that sounded contrite. Its so calculated.

    There were moments during the interview that you could kind of tell that they were pre-scripted/canned answers, so I can see that. Thanks for the detailed stats too EMM386! Wow!

    * rayboyjr:
    Wow … a lot of lengthy comments …

    Yeah, good kine healthy debate yeah rbj! Loves it!


  12. kuya.d:

    You know what would help a-rod? If he and the other 100 or so players who tested positive got together and dropped some scrips for the nation's stimulus plan . . . that would be a step in the right direction. Ed, I know if you had over 200 mill, you would spot Obama some scrips, right?


  13. EMM386:

    @Ed:

    Yeah, I'm a baseball geek with a copy of Elias and a digital copy of the baseball-reference.com numbers.


  14. World Wide Ed:

    * kuya.d:
    You know what would help a-rod? If he and the other 100 or so players who tested positive got together and dropped some scrips for the nation’s stimulus plan . . . that would be a step in the right direction. Ed, I know if you had over 200 mill, you would spot Obama some scrips, right?

    If I had over 200 mill, I would spread the wealth to all WWE commenters. Haha, sorry, had to use that moment to try and entice more peeps to comment. :P

    * EMM386:
    @Ed:

    Yeah, I’m a baseball geek with a copy of Elias and a digital copy of the baseball-reference.com numbers.

    Nice EMM386! Good with numbers eh? You're hereby not invited to next year's WWE Fantasy Football League. LOL! Nah! :P


  15. uncle jimmy:

    edward..
    pete rose.. ha ha j/k..
    edward, along wit' you..
    as long-suffering phillies phans, our current BB hero has to be Shane Victory-No? Yes, we did win the WS, didn't we? And as philliez phanz, we don't expeck to win it again for anuddah 20 yeahs.. made it all da mo sweet to have a local boy one majah factah in bringeen home da kine to our aff-lick-shun, aka da philliez.. does it get any bettah den dat?


  16. frankie:

    Yeah, everytime I'm in Vegas I see Pete Rose trying to make money by signing autographs in Caesar's Palace. At least he gambled on his baseball team winning and not losing.


  17. Coconut Willy:

    Not really an A-Rod fan (I'm a Met's fan). I think he's way overpaid and has never proven himself in the post season.

    A friend of mine said it best, Conseco is the only one telling the truth!


  18. J.P.K.:

    a little late to this one. i listen to espn podcasts (the herd, mike and mike, pti, bs report, tirico and van pelt, and the dan patrick show) at work everyday, so i've probably heard every single argument there is about a-rod. i tend to side with everyone in the, "the hall of fame is a museum" camp and that they should be let in, but with a disclaimer that during this period, PEDs were being used. it'd be pretty weird (in my case and same could be said for Ed) 30-40 years from now when you take your grandkids to the hall of fame and they'd wonder how come the all-time home run leaders (career and single season) aren't in the hall. i, for one, don't care for baseball and could care less if they make it (to the hall) or not, but i tend to side with that argument.

    if you are going to keep out guys who were on PEDs, there could be some classes a few years down the road that wouldn't have any nominations because everyone eligible would be tainted by the PEDs era.

    i also like bill simmon's idea to have different levels of the pro sports hall of fames.